Protect The Asset E8- Jake Turner - Client Attraction & Building a Successful Online Career

My guest today is Jack Turner.

Jack was working in a Melbourne based gym when COVID hit.  He was to move his personal training career online as gym in Melbourne were shutdown.

In hindsight, it's been a blessing for Jack as his online career grew quickly.  In fact, it grew so quickly that Jack was close to burnout and he had to stop marketing his online services until he could find a way to free up more time.

We talk about system and processes, choosing a niche, online marketing, time management, mentors and Jacks future plans to build a team to help him manage the demand for his online company state of motion.

So grab your notebook and be prepared to jot down some of the tips and tricks Jack shares in this episode.

[00:01:00] 


Jack: Currently I'm a full-time online trainer and I've only transitioned in the last year to being fully online. I used to have a face-to-face business. I mostly specialize in teaching handstands and body weight gymnastic strength, styles of [00:02:00] methods. And along with that I've been worked with some some really cool gyms and stuff and learn't some cool holistic health nutrition stuff as well. 


So I kind of had that as my package too. But yeah, at the moment it's, it's fully online and I'm just like pretty much trying to get that whole thing crank, make it a viable thing. 


That's awesome. Awesome to hear. I really want to unpack that and especially sort of that transition that you've had from, you know, working face-to-face with clients, to, you know, building the online business that you've got now. When you were back at the gym, like whereabouts were you working and what was the catalyst for you to leave that and start working towards this? 


Yeah. So I've been in gyms for a long time working in like commercial gyms. I was in a Genesis. I worked at a south Pacific even like a YMCA. And that was like really early on in my career. And I was I was kind of discount through the motions to be honest. I don't know, figuring it out, but also like didn't really know that I could make this an actual career, like worth, like pursuing. 


[00:03:00] And then I did a lot of traveling inbetween my time, like when I first got started and I came back from a trip and went to Fifth Element and that's pretty much where I, like, I kind of realized that you could actually do this well, like you get actually, you could actually help people really, really like meaningfully with the health and with their training in all kind of aspects. And I've come from doing like a bit of yoga and meditation stuff as well. So I kind of like, I kind of paste all this stuff together when I was at fifth element and it kind of all kind of clicked for me quite well. And I was getting mentored by Dave. 


Had this idea of going online, but didn't know how I could kind of like gel it all together. And I think like at Fifth Element, it made sense how it could all kind of work in a way. And then COVID hit and that kind of forced me to go online. So like COVID was like, the biggest blessing ever, because I had no choice, but to pursue that option and I've been thinking about it forced me into online, and never [00:04:00] looked back since really? 


If it wasn't for COVID where would you be now? Honestly, like, cause I was planning on leaving fifth elements. I honestly had no idea how I was going to transition because I was so like, I was doing lots and lots of hours at fifth. And I was keen to kind go out and do my own thing. 


And the online space still seems so foreign to me. So I was like, I wouldn't have just gone straight into that. There's no way I would've liked why did another couple of years? And then COVID was just like, oh, well, you've kind of got no choice. Now you have to do online. 


And just as well, you did make, cause obviously Melbourne was in lockdown for a long period of time and gym's was sharp for such a long period of time. It would have been difficult to survive if you hadn't pivoted and made that decision to, you know, obviously go online, where did you start? 


So like, obviously COVID set the gyms a shut. What was your first sort of call to action that you did to start building this career online? Yeah. The first thing I did, like probably like what most people would do is just kind of Google search just was like, trying to basically [00:05:00] do as much research as I could as to how you actually do it. 


Like as soon as you start searching, people probably have found this as well. Like you just get hit with ads and ads and ads of online trainers to coaches and stuff. And so I kind of like fell victim to being first time and went into a course that I wasn't really ready to do. But, it was great. Cause it kinda like opened my eyes to how like a system could work online, like what the process could look like. 


And that was a company called TribeFit. And to be honest, I kind of didn't really get that far, without course I did it for a bit. And then I was still doing face-to-face at the time and it just like never really went anywhere. And then I, I kinda like went away from the online thing for about like maybe like six months and then I got hit by more ads. 


This time I did a bit more due diligence and like figured it out. And then I committed to this course and I was like, ready to actually fully do it. And yeah, and that, that was the beginning, like a year ago [00:06:00] when I'd actually like, started taking off and I started getting some, some clients. 


So there was a period, obviously that you were maybe doing a hybrid stuff where you were in-person and online at the same time. 


Jack: I was trying, but like in my head I was calling myself an online trainer, but I didn't really have many clients. I was like trying to convince myself that I was already at online trainer and telling people that I was, but I'd have like one or two clients. 


When the transition happened, it happened really quickly. Like I went from zero or two clients, like 60 clients in about two months. And so. That forced me out of the the face-to-face and now I actually am an online trainer. 


Stretch: That's it, mate. That's awesome. Growth. To go from two to 60 in such a short period of time, because a lot of coaches, when they move online, the hardest thing they find is like, how do I attract clients online? 


Obviously working in the gym, we've sort of got this audience that comes to us, you know, and it's a lot easier to pick up clients. What do you put your success down to? How did you go about building such a rapid growth of client uptake. 


Jack: [00:07:00] I think it will look like honestly, like lockdowns definitely had a big part in it. 


Like a lot of people didn't know what their options were and they were stuck at home. And I basically marketed myself or position myself in that market as like handstands and gymnastics, you can do basically anywhere so I can work out at home. You can get better results than you've ever gotten before. 


And you know, you don't need anything apart from the set of rings or whatever. And so I think that was like really beneficial. And I think like I got lucky with the timing, but at the same time, I still have to do the work to actually get the leads. So it wasn't like they just fell into my lap or anything. 


But I think that was, that was a big part of it. And then also like, because I already had, because I was doing this course, I had a system in place that was like, ready to go. And so. When the leads started coming in. I could actually take 60 clients on and be like, oh yeah, cool. I've got a process. Like I've got a sales script. 


I've got like this process. And it kind of like worked quite well. If I had of just like started marketing it with no [00:08:00] plan or, or, or system I would have just been like stuffed at 10. Cause I would've had to make it all, do all the videos and like get it all going. So I think like having a structure was probably one of the main things that are succeeded quite early and like having that solid. And then the only thing that became a bottleneck in the end was me not my actual system. It was just, I couldn't actually take on more people. 


Stretch: Well, 60 is a big number to deal with, to deal with doing that many clients. 


So what did you learn from that experience? You and I have sort of touched base and I know what's sort of happened to you when that sort of influx of clients happen. Can you share with listeners what happened then? 


Jack: Long story short I burnt out. 


And mostly because I still have like a in-person business and it was turned off because of COVID. And so those clients were still sitting there and they didn't want to go online. And so I got 60 new clients online that weren't in-person clients. Then when lockdown finished. I had like a 30 hour week in-person business and then 60 online clients, I had like [00:09:00] 90 clients almost in total. 


And I was just like, oh shit. That was like burnt out beyond, beyond belief. It was more just like, like, I think I actually could have managed the workload, but mentally just thinking about all the stuff that I had to do. And like the pile is getting bigger and bigger. That just completely burnt out and fizzled. 


In hindsight I would have just cut my in-person business a lot sooner just because online is where I wanted to go anyway. And the in-person thing was just like really draining my time and my energy and I still enjoyed it. I love my clients, but it just like ruined me in the end. 


Stretch: So what did you do when that happened? 


Like when you were burnt out and you'd realize that I'm taking on more than I can handle 


Jack: I stopped all marketing, basically like all social media stuff. I just stopped because I couldn't take on any new clients. And then I, I set a date to when my in-person business was going to finish and I was like to my clients, look, we've got 30 days together. 


That's [00:10:00] it. And then it's done sort of thing. You've got the option to move online or I can find another train of thought you like in Melbourne or whatever. And then as that was kind of happening, I was gradually burning out. It wasn't like, like a straight off the cliff kind of job. Do all these hours graduallygetting worse, and worse. 


And then by the time I actually cut my in-person business off, I was just like finished. I kind of did a really poor job of that because I was so over it. And then like a lot of clients started dropping off as well, because my effort was just not there because I couldn't put it in. 


And it was just like a bit of a spiral out of control. So. I ended up gathering myself and kind of saving it. So it didn't like go to zero, but I definitely learn't a lot from burning out. Like definitely taught me a lot about my own energy and what I can give in terms of work. Yeah. 


Stretch: It's definitely important, mate. 


Now that you've gone through that experience have you realized that there's sort of a limit with your online business as well and where that can grow to in terms of the [00:11:00] number of people you can see? 


Jack: What I've kind of learned now is the business will grow to its like closest restraint. There's definitely limits to how everything is set up now and I'll grow to that point and then I'll have to like overcome the systems or whatever, change that to then go to the next level. 


The biggest bottleneck at the moment is me because I'm the only one in the team. And so it'll get to a point where I can't do the sales calls. I've got too many or I've got too many clients and I have to hire a trainer or something like that. When I get to that point, I'll have to overcome those challenges of hiring and shit like that. 


But for now, I honestly don't know what the limit is. I actually don't know, cause I haven't hit it. So I don't think it's 60 clients. It could be like a hundred clients. I would start hiring why before a hundred clients. 


Stretch: It's a good realization to have. And it's nice to see that you've got that in the back of your mind and you realize that as the business grows, there is going to be a need to revisit the processes and systems that you have in place so that you can become, I suppose, more [00:12:00] productive in a sense in terms of how you use your time. 


Jack: Yeah, for sure. And I think as well, like I'd actually be able to help people better that way, you know, like the service would be better if I wasn't just overworked and smashed all the time. And that's kinda what I learn't from the last burnout was like, I really dropped off my service and the care that I was giving to clients, because I just had no care to give, like I was trying to like, hold onto the care for myself. 


Cause I was like just in a bad head space. That that was the biggest lesson, because I try and give as much as I can, but you just can't give when there's nothing many give, you know. 


Stretch: I think a lot of coaches go through that mate with their in-person business. We work such crazy hours in the gym and we're not taking care of our own health. 


We're lacking sleep, we're lacking, you know, routine and everything. That's obviously taking care of ourself. I'm a big advocate of the health and fitness industry promotes health, but it fails to support it. And the only way I've seen with coaches that they can actually build a sustainable career is by moving their career [00:13:00] online or having some sort of online element to their career that allows them to grow their business and obviously make a wage that doesn't require them to work such stupid hours. 


Is that the same for you when you reflect back on, you know, the time you had in the gym and where you are now? 


Jack: Yeah. Like those are exactly my head Headspace. It was like, if I want to do this long term, I can't do like 40 sessions a week, you know, or my only options are either go online and start making packages and then servicing people that way or up my prices, like crazy, get really specialized in one thing. 


And then just up my price stock through the roof and then cut my sessions that way. They were both really good options, but I think the online space is still like way better in terms of I can bewhere I want, like I moved to Queensland. I can train what I want. I can go for surf. 


I can do all these things that I couldn't do if I was in a gym for 10 hours a day. 


Stretch: Yeah, exactly mate, it's all about the freedom. 


You've mentioned a couple of times, you know, that you you've been very [00:14:00] specific about choosing a niche. 


Is that something that just came naturally to you? Was that part of the course? Like how did you fall into this niche? Or, was it very deliberate? 


Jack: Good question. It like just gradually kind of happened over time. And like, when I was first in gyms, I wasn't like a niche trainer. 


I was just training. General population doing whatever, whatever they kind of wanted, to be honest, it wasn't like I was teaching them what I thought was good for them. I was just like trying to keep them happy so they wouldn't leave me it sounds so desperate. 


But but now like the course itself didn't actually teach me too much about nature is more like what I'm actually interested in. And I was just like stuck to that. Cause I enjoy it. Like. Like bodyweight training so much more enjoyable just for me. And then, because I've focused on that of like excelled a bit better at that stuff. 


Now people kind of like seek me out. It would be so much harder going online if you didn't have a niche that you were kind of into, it doesn't even have to be that crazy of a niche. You don't have to go and learn handstand. It's like, you could just [00:15:00] be a weight loss coach that's really focused on mindset or like Headspace stuff. Or you could be a frigging obstacle course racer? Whereas you do the same style of training, but you just niching yourself as like an obstacle course racer. 


Stretch: Why is, you know, having a niche for you, been something that's been important and probably led to the success that you've had. 


Jack: When you're more niched, you obviously attract a very specific person that's trying to come to you, but also like you're very clear on what your actually fitting in what the problem is you're solving. And that way, like when you're clear about that, you actually help people a lot better. 


Like if I wasn't really clear on what I did when people come to me and they've got all these different goals, all these different things, I'm not. actually focused on helping them achieve a single thing. Focusing on too many different areas and not being specific. So I think niching like for me has been very powerful because now when people come to me, it's really clear, [00:16:00] like what they want to learn. 


It's not like someone's not coming to me to learn how to powerlift or to deadlift squat or whatever. They coming to me to learn the handstand. It's like, oh, I know that really well. So I can actually help you really well with that. But if someone was like a deadlift, like, I don't know how to do it, but I'm not like a pro at a deadlift. 


I think niching has been like super powerful and it makes it a lot easier for you to actually like, put your message out there, to know what to post about, to know what to talk about, to know like how to actually market yourself. If you don't have a niche and just be like saying random shit or different messages and it wouldn't actually make any sense to your audiance. 


Stretch: That's really powerful. And it's great to see that you've got a good understanding of why to have a niche. And also how to use that niche in terms of your marketing. Before you sort of said that, you know, you could turn away your in-person clients because you know, you are now an online coach. 


Not only do you know what you do, you also know what you don't do. So your example there of the deadlift is if someone comes to you and they want to be [00:17:00] a deadlift champion, well, you're not the coach. You can easily say, no, you're going to have to go and find someone that's going to help you achieve that goal. 


If you want to learn handstands, come and see me. It gives you that freedom and the ability to scale, like you're not trying to serve a hundred different clients with a hundred different goals. You've got this ability to work with clients or with the same goal. So the systems and processes that you're building and putting into place aligns with exactly your audience. 


So, yeah, definitely a great thing, mate, let's dig a bit deeper into terms of those systems and processes that you've set up. Obviously, niching is one. What, what's something else that you've found to be very helpful in terms of building this online career? 


Jack: Good question. There's a lot. In terms of marketing, just getting really, really clear on your niche is the first thing. 


And then like, create like a bit of a social media plan, because that's where most of our clients come through at the moment anyway. And so just having a really consistent plan on what posts, like I think of it [00:18:00] from like a red, a little whiteboard written up, what does my clients or avatar want to actually see, or want to get value from? 


So every time I'm doing a post or doing a Tik-Tok or whatever, I'm trying to think of like, what is the audience getting from my posts and that way. When people see your staff, maybe they're not your avatar, or if they do want to learn a handstand, now they follow you. So you're actually getting the right people to follow you. I think that's been super powerful. And as well, like having a plan and a structure and it, every time I got a post and was sitting there cooking my lid, been like, what am I gonna post? 


Like I just go, yep. Cool. Monday's post, I'm doing this on breakfast. Cool like make the video. It's like a lot easier when I plan it all. So that's been big. Also just around. I didn't, I didn't realize how much work you had to put in to get leads. It's been probably the hardest thing to get my head around, like how much volume you actually have to do to [00:19:00] find the right leads. 


And so cold messaging has been a big part of my strategy, like earlier on. And so I would. Try and get followers through posts and stuff through your chat to them, message them, try and find people like in groups, things like that, that I like part of my niche. So I wouldn't go into a group that has like bikini body for moms or whatever. 


It would be like a calisthenics page. And I would be trying to like talk to people. We interact in groups and things like that. And that's probably the thing that's been hardest. Cause I'm not good at that. I'm good at interacting with people in a gym in in-person. But like hopping and trying to communicate over the internet is, is, is a whole different ball game. 


So that's been a big part of like actually getting leads and then as well, like the course was great because it gave me like a sales script that I kind of like turned into my own thing. So having an actual sales group is a big, big part of my my system as well. And then also. There's so many things like the app that I [00:20:00] use, the, the meal plans that I use, like, they're all different softwares that you plug in the forms that I use. 


Like there's all these systems that I've learned to slowly over time. And I've gradually built on that have made it like so much easier for myself, but you can't really, you can't really know what what's going to work for your business until you actually do it. I think like when I first started out just trying to have everything. 


Straight up and it's like, it's just not a really good approach. You just have to like slowly build one thing at a time because I, I kind of did it the first time with the first course. I built everything out and then none of it worked 


40 hours into this thing, and I haven't got anywhere. 


Stretch: Build it and they will come, it's not the philosophy that obviously results in a successful career. And I love what you said there, there was some really powerful points that you sort of covered about, you know, obviously setting up systems, but also just taking it step by step and growing the business sort of, as it comes, I think when we're very new, it's about networking. 


It's about connecting. And how many conversations have you had with your niche clients? So for [00:21:00] you to be engaging people through DMS and through your content is starting to help you build that reputation as this niche trainer and bringing people towards you. And like you say, there'll be a point when that shifts where that engagement will be able to go less. 


And just through your reputation alone, the business will continue to sort of grow. 


You know, you mentioned the hardest part so far has been that engagement with people. What else have you found difficult moving from being the in-person personal trainer to being the online coach? 


I think just the nature of the whole game, like being online, like you're in front of your computer. 


Jack: You have to spend a long time on your phone, your thinking about creating content. You're not like just going into a gym and talking to people, which is what I used to really enjoy. And like, don't get me wrong. I still talk to heaps of people like on calls and my clients talk to them all the time as well. But it's just a different level of communication that you would have in a gym. 


And I think I found that really difficult at the beginning because [00:22:00] it became very like. Solo. We came very, just me doing it. And one of the things I'm looking forward to the most is building a team. So I can actually like work with people to do this thing. But yeah, that's been really difficult because I'm like, I grew up on a farm. 


I'm like a country kid. Like I like being outdoors. Like I do physical stuff all the time. So being behind a computer and kind of changing that lifestyle has been like a massive challenge, but at the same time, it's the best because it allows me to do what I want to do. 


That's it, man. You gotta sacrifice a few things just to get that freedom. 


Now that you've done it though. Would you ever go back to the. 


Honestly, like, I don't think I would ever go back to doing one-on-one stuff, but retreats or like workshops, like these sorts of things I'm keen on doing eventually. I'm not sure how it's gonna like become part of my package and what I offer, but yeah, I'm definitely considering doing some sort of like, Group stuff, because I think [00:23:00] the online space, the hardest thing that I've found to build is a community because it's a lot easier for someone to be involved when they rock up to a space and there's people around them in person, but it's a lot harder for them to engage in a group on Facebook and like, oh, I don't want to look at my phone or whatever, and they don't want to be in the group or maybe they don't have Facebook or something like that. So it's like the community aspect is something that I've really found challenging to try and get everyone together. 


And I think like maybe like half yearly retreats for clients could be like an amazing service that would like provide heaps of value for them. 


Stretch: I really, really liked the idea of that. I think you know, that's the big thing a lot of coaches that I work with and a lot of coaches I speak to experience, once I'm out of the gym, I'm not connecting face-to-face with the clients. I'm not working with my colleagues and you do feel very sort of isolated. So, to have those events or to be able to get back in front of people and network and keep those skills current is very powerful. 


So I love that idea and I, I [00:24:00] hope that, you know, you can keep following that. Cause I think workshops and retreats are a natural sort of progression that will lead to even more growth of your business. 


I'd like to go back to talking about this team, you know, obviously you've, you've built this business and now you're considering that you've got this sort of vision of where you want to take it. 


What's that going to look like in the future that you hope. 


Jack: Cool. I dunno, like I have an idea in my head, like how it will kind of work. But like, there's obviously going to be like issues with finding the right employees or like, maybe I'll make the wrong hire first. And I should have got a sales person instead of a trainer or whatever, but. 


My thought process behind it is I'll be taking a load off what I do. And so that would either be the lead generation with messaging or with, with advertisement. Then getting a trainer and someone to come underneath me as like a, an apprentice kind of thing that I could teach them how to use my systems that I've built. 


And then getting a sales person would be the next one for someone to take the calls. And then my main role would be like creating. And also like [00:25:00] fulfilling on the client's journey. So like, I would actually be the one on the coaching calls and take them through the process and all that sort of jazz. 


That's what I think anyway, but we'll say. 


Stretch: What are the aspects that you love most about what you're doing now? Coaching people. Yeah. Like I said, outsource all those things, those extra parts of the business, don't get me wrong. I do enjoy doing it, they've been really beneficial for me to learn, but I actually just like coaching people when it comes down to and building the relationships with people, and actually helping people get their results as well. 


Like it's just, that's the whole part of the business that really like Watts me up. And then like the other side, I know necessary, like marketing social media, but like it's definitely more of a grind to do that stuff. 


That's a good thing to think about. It's like, what am I passionate about? 


What are the parts that I enjoy and create that role for yourself if you've got that ability and then, the shit that you don't like, you know, if it's the marketing and it's the sales and that stuff, that's the [00:26:00] first stuff to really outsource. It's like, okay, if I've got that ability to pay for this and get it off my plate and free up your time, then you know, that's probably a really good sort of spot for you to start 


Jack: A hundred percent. The only thing that I've thought about is because so far, I am the business, my face, bald head mustache guy, you know, that'd be the last thing that we'll transition out of a think, because if I build it to where I imagine it's going to die and I have a team, I'm still going to have to be the face of the whole thing for a long period of time. 


And then for me to eventually like step out of the content, creating and whatnot, I think that'd be the last thing just because, whether I like it or not, most people are buying the service because they're buying it for me or for the interaction with me, not necessarily because of something else at the moment. 


But hopefully eventually it becomes about the service. Yeah. 


Stretch: It's, it's definitely a big part of it. Obviously people want to see you, they want to understand your world. They want to know who you are, your character, you're the one building the trust and building the relationships. 


So to step back from that is isn't going to [00:27:00] be an easy task, but like you say, if you want to continue to help people and you want to expand, it's a natural progression in the long run for sure. 


I want to talk about your health, how are you feeling, you know yourself now that you've created this career and what's it allowed you to do in terms of taking care of your own health? 


Great question. 


Recently, just for the move to Queensland, I've been like a bit kind of just like stressed about where the business is going to go. So, mentally I'm kinda in a weird, weird place too, because I'm unsure. To give it more context, Melbourne is the safty net. I could easily stop online and go back to training people because I've got heaps of clients that want to try and be there. 


Jack: So moving to Queensland was like nah. It's going, like he cut it off sort of thing. And that's been quite daunting, not having that safety net. 


So my head space has been kind of like caught in between those things, but in terms of like My, ability to look after myself or training, has been better than ever because I'm not working 10 hours with clients and then having to do a two hour training session on top of [00:28:00] that, and then backing that up five days in a row. 


And then wondering why I feel like an absolute bag of dicks on the weekend. So, so now it's like, I might work, you know, like six hours one day, train for two hours. And then the next day I might work four hours and train for three hours, the next day I might work for 12 hours and not try at all or whatever the variety is really nice. 


It kind of like, lets me do what I feel is right for my body. Like some days I just can't train because I'm tired and that's fine. And then some days I can train forever, and that's fine as well. The ability to control my schedule has allowed me to kind of do whatever I feel, which is really good. 


Stretch: I think it's just something that all trainers are striving towards to be able to have that freedom to choose their own hours. Which is epic. 


How do you go with time management? You know, before at the gym? It's like, your career is based around everyone else's time you work when it suits them. 


Not when it suits you, but now you've got this, you've got all this freedom you can choose. What have you found with managing your own time? 


Jack: Yeah, that, that [00:29:00] was probably the hardest thing to. Well, like, cause, cause you're on social media all the time. Like at the beginning I still fall victim to it now. Like I just get caught in the biggest vortex of all time, fucking looking at shit on my phone just because I didn't have to be anywhere.. 


I've blocked out like social media planning for an hour and then I'm getting phone and just look at shit. 


Stretch: Down the vortex, the trap. 


Jack: Oh, it's such a trap. It's such a damn pie. But now like Very strict, like kind of blocks into my calendar for time management. So, and I've tried almost play game with it a little bit. 


So it's like, all right, I've got an hour to do programming for a new client. And that's the time that I get, if it goes over, I have to leave it sort of thing. And so when I get to the end of that hour, I'm like onto the next task. So it kind of makes me like, actually push hard for that hour, because I know that I'm gonna let do it afterwards. 


And I found that helps cause. , I find when you give yourself a time restraint, you [00:30:00] actually do it a lot quicker. If you had a test, for example, and test was on at the end of the week, you would wait all week until the last day. 


And then you would do all the work in that one day and then do the test. It's like, why wouldn't you. Put the restraint really taught on you. So it's not a test and it's just a task that you have to do and make it only an hour and just get it done in that hour. And then if you don't get it done, that's it, time's up sort of thing. 


.So I've been trying to been trying to have that approach it's been helpful. And, but at the same time, I'm like, I try not to be too stressed about it cause I don't wanna black stress myself out. 


Stretch: It's great that you can break down your goals into small, actionable tasks and give yourself actual time zones that you're going to sit down and do that task. 


How do you go managing bigger projects? So let's say you're working on. On your business and on your career. And it's something that's, you know, is going to take a lot of work. What goes through your sort of mind or through your process about setting up that those big chunks of work? 


Jack: This is where I've found having an external mentor helping you create the structure [00:31:00] around it helps a lot. Cause in my head I can be like, all right, this thing is this big. It might take me like X amount hours. I'm going to dedicate five hours a week to this thing, which is good. But having someone else like, kind of actually put the steps in place for you for what you needed. Like I found is, is super beneficial. 


Like for example I'm really close to going into launching my first Facebook and Instagram ads, and I'll be working with a friend of mine and he is like somewhat an expert at ads. And so he's kind of like helped me get the checklist done. And then every, every day I'm like, I've got an hour to work on ads. 


I go into the checklist and I'm just smashed out on boom, boom, smash up all the things I need to do. And then that hour's done. The next day, I've got another hour that I can do the same tasks or finish off the rest of the things. But I think you've always tried to you've always tried to make that check with myself with somebody that I didn't actually understand, or I didn't know, process. 


It would take like infinitely longer, so much longer. 


Stretch: You're calling [00:32:00] on the expertise of other professionals. Like, you know, you're great at coaching. You're great at delivering the service to your clients, but there are obviously areas where that's not your strength, but to be able to connect with mentors or have coaches, or have someone there to guide you is definitely going to save you a lot of time and energy in the future. 


You know, you've mentioned the course that you sorta done you've mentioned this mate, that's helping you with marketing. Who, who else have you sort of connected with or what other services have you called on to help you with this online career. 


Jack: There's a real, there's a real, like thin line between doing the course and actually getting benefit from it and then doing a course because you want this thing to save you, to make your life easier sort of thing. Because doing a course is great and I've done courses and jumped into them and just like not being ready and it has not been the right thing. And it's been a biggest waste of money because it wasn't what I needed. I didn't think about it. I kind of fell victim to the marketing, all that sort of jazz. And so I think there's a really, really thin line between knowing what's [00:33:00] the right course to do, or actually just doing it yourself and doing the work. Like some things you just have to figure out on your own, you know? 


But to answer your question. Yeah. So this course I did was by a guy called Tanner Chidester, he's American dude. He built an online fitness business. I think the reason why that works so well for me is because he had actually done the exact thing that he was teaching. Like a lot of people do courses for let's say it's like Facebook ads or whatever, and they're learning from someone who's got an e-comm background. 


And so it might be. This slightly different to what you're actually wanting. So you can't make it fit perfectly. So if I was to give any like recommendation, it would be like, find someone is actually teaching a course exactly what you're trying to learn and what you're trying to do. But commit to that. And then also like the, I think the biggest thing that's helped me over the period of time is like having mentors. 


And I didn't really pay much attention to this at the beginning [00:34:00] of my PT career, but the amount of people that I've been able to call on, like now and ask for help. Because of being a nice person and helping people and building these connections earlier on that I didn't think were actually valuable in my head. 


I was just building connections cause I blocked them or I enjoyed talking to them. So we became mates. And now, because of that, I'm able to call on these connections and get recommendations from people that have just helped me immensely that have just changed my whole business. 


Basically. Like an example is my friend who's doing the, the ads with me. He was. He was a client of mine who came from a really good friend. And he basically recommended this guy to do my program. We did two to six week blocks into that. And then I just asked him, cause I knew what he did like, Hey, I'll pay for your services and he's like, don't worry about it. I'm just happy for free. If I didn't build a good relationship with him, there's no way that he would've just been like open to helping me, you know? 


Stretch: It's so hard to do what you do [00:35:00] solo. Obviously a lot of the work is solo, but you save so much time when you just call on the expertise of others. And it's awesome that you've, you know, you've found that in one of your clients or you found that through friends, or even through past connections that you've sort of built definitely a great way to speed up the growth of your online career and call on those expertise. 


What are you working on now? 


Jack: So right now I'm working on basically the lead generation side of the business, so that it's more sustainable because to give the listeners a bit of an idea of the cold outreach I was doing, like it's close to like anywhere from 40 to a hundred cold messages a day. So like you're racking up 700 messages a week. So it's like quite a time consuming process and also very like mentally draining one. And so going into Facebook ads has been a really a really big focus of mine recently because it's going to take the weight off that. And also looking into getting some help with like a [00:36:00] virtual assistant to do some messaging for me as well has been another area that I've kind of testing out, but I've always been a bit hesitant about that one because I feel like the quality might drop off a little bit, or I'm not really sure I haven't gone down that path yet. So they're the two areas that are kind of focusing on for lead generation and then. In terms of the backend trying to automate a bit, not fully automate, but automate my program selection at the moment if someone joins up to my program that would go through a type form. Out of the questions that they answer. It would classify them as a level of program, like a handstand one, rings two, mobility program. And then that would just automatically get put into my app and that would have their program. 


And then I would go and just do the tweaks to make sure that it's all like set and fully customized to them, but it would do most of the heavy lifting for me as well. And that way, like if I do get to a hundred clients or I do get to [00:37:00] however many clients. That is a really big chunk of time. That's kind of been saved because the programming side of it, when you try and make things like customized and exactly to them is time consuming as 


Stretch: I love that because I think so many coaches want to come online and they want to do individualized programming, which is great. I totally get it. But the reality is to sit down and write individual programs for a hundred clients is just never going to happen. You just don't have that time, but when you've got a niche and you know, the clients that you're training and they're all working towards the same goal, you can have this template method that it sounds like you've built and just make slight tweaks. 


I love the fact that you say it does the heavy lifting, but you're still customized it. You know, to each individual client, that's a really smart way to build a system or build a scalable system that's going to help you obviously get to a certain point. Maybe it's a hundred, maybe it'll break at 80, but you know, you've got to figure out how to modify that and step forward. 


That's awesome to hear, man. 


Jack: If you went in a [00:38:00] nation is so much harder to do that. You'd have to make a thousand templates based off the people that you think is one person want to do power lifting. One person might want to do cardio and one person wants to do circuits. And can you just imagine, like how many programs you can possibly write for the people in the world? 


So like being niche, it's basically the only reason why I could do that, because if it wasn't, there's no way. 


Stretch: It's such a powerful tool that just gets overlooked. I think a lot of people just don't understand it. You know, choose a niche and that's just what I post is my bio on my social media. 


Jack: I definitely did that. 


Stretch: We've all done that before. So it's great to see that, you know, you've, you've done a deep dive into your client, you know what. And you know how to use your niche in terms of, you know, creating such great systems and processes behind the scene, which is fantastic. You've done such a great job, Jack, and it's been an inspiration to sort of watch, you know, your career grow. 


And obviously there's been struggles and challenges along the way, but it seems [00:39:00] like you have the ability to stay motivated and you have the ability to pivot and learn from your mistakes. 


Jack: It's honestly been way harder than I thought it was going to be, to be honest, like there's been countless times, I've been like, man, just like, what are you doing? 


Like do something easier. Like, what's the point of this? I honestly can't give up on this whole thing and I think that's, that's a big part of it. Like with this whole online space or with any businesses, someone wants to do it. You're just not going to be very good at it at the beginning. And you have to have that ability to not give up and keep pushing. 


Otherwise you'll never actually know when you get there. 


But it's so true. You just have to push through the shit, days. There's heaps of them, and then there's really good days as well. 


Stretch: Before you were sort of saying how things are not perfect. And I think a lot of coaches are trying to wait until they build the perfect solution before they go online or before they start to market or before they start to take on clients. 


And it's just the wrong approach. You've got to get in there. You've got to actually take action and you've got to fail. You've got to make mistakes. And if you're [00:40:00] not doing that, and there's no chance that you're ever going to build a successful online business. So yeah, no, it's great. It's great to see that you're, you're moving towards your fears in a sense, you've left the comfort zone of Melbourne and that fall back, like you said, and it's all in it's like I've got to make this work, which is sometimes the best way I think. 


Jack: It's kinda the only way for me anyway, there was a safe net. I would probably use it. So I'm like, all right, just don't give yourself the option. 


Stretch: What do you think you've sacrificed to get to where you are today? 


Jack: Lots of things. In terms of like learning, like I learnt a lot when I was at fifth element and I had to sacrifice, one was the income, because it was quite a low pay. But, on the other side of that, we got so much extra benefit. I got to be mentored by Dave for three years. For me, that is the most invaluable service and learnings that I could ever have. He basically changed me as a [00:41:00] trainer. So like, you can't put a value on that, but being there and the amount of sacrifice that took in terms of time, cause I was just like there 10, 12 hours a day. And also like I did three gut protocols with them. 


So like a. Do anything for like a good 18 months of my life out of that time then, because I was six months protocols. In terms of sacrificing, like I gave up a really, really comfortable, easy face-to-face business that was doing quite well, that I'd hit the ceiling on. 


And it was either know I pushed myself into the uncomfortable and actually commit to this thing is online game or. I just forget about it and go back to being a trainer and not learning something different. And I think that's been the biggest sacrifice and ultimately going to be the biggest payoff as well. 


Cause I can see like the skills that I'm learning now skills that can be used in any business. If I want to go into something else or I want to learn some other, [00:42:00] some other skills or do another business, I think like I would do it five times quicker than how I've done it now, because I know how to do this. 


Stretch: The personal growth has obviously been huge when you've stepped away from that comfort zone and put yourself in this position, which is obviously great to see. If you were to think about how sustainable is this career and, you know, could you work into your sixties, seventies, maybe doing this in comparison to where you were and working face to face. 


Jack: Definitely not doing face-to-face at 60, even though I'm probably going to be punching handstands out when I'm 60, just on the record there. 


Yeah, the online thing, I think what I'm doing now is something that I'm like, I don't necessarily think I won't do like till I'm 60 or whatever, but it does have the potential, I can do that for sure. Cause it's not texting my body. I can choose my time. Like all that sort of stuff. I think people would just start to not really listen to me as much as I started getting older. 


Teaching [00:43:00] high level gymnastics stuff or whatever. I don't really know. Maybe they would, because I was like a master or some shit. But I think the, the stuff that I'm learning with business, just like how business actually works and the things you need to be on top of with business is something that I could put into any other black skill and then do that time 60. 


Whereas what I was learning from face to face, like I could open a gym and maybe that would lead you to somewhere else. But if I just stay doing what I was doing, like I was learning zero skills. I was learning zero things about business marketing, all those extra good things. 


So yeah. In terms of longevity, this is the life., 


Stretch: What you choose to do in your future. There's probably lots more opportunity now because you've taken this step. 


Jack has been awesome to hear about your career. 


And just in the last few minutes, I'd like to ask just a couple of questions to finish off with number one, if you would to gift a book to a personal trainer who wants to build a sustainable career, what would that book be? 


Jack: There's two books that come to mind, [00:44:00] but I'll just give you one of them. 


And it's a more like philosophical one. It's by a Buddhist called I'm going to absolutely stuff pronunciation. Thich Nhat Hanh, something like that. And he wrote a book that impacted me, like profoundly called no mud, no Lotus. And it basically the whole premise of the book, it talks about the balance pain, suffering and happiness. 


And. You can't really have happiness for that suffering. So you have to experience what suffering is to then experience success or happiness or whatever. And it relates it to the, to the Lotus flower because it grows from the mud through the water and then becomes like a beautiful flower. There's no Lotus without the mud. 


Stretch: That's definitely something that we can all relate to in our personal training careers. So we definitely start in the mud. We have to get out of there. So you got to dig yourself out exactly that way. If you could go back in time and give your younger self some advice, what would that [00:45:00] advice be? 


Jack: It would be advice that I'd still give to myself now, occasionally as well, it would be like not to focus on the money and not to focus on like the financial benefit of what you're going to do, that's obviously important because you need money. But if it's just soul focus, it becomes very, very soul destroying. 


You end up hating what you're doing. You start to lose the joy in what you're actually trying to achieve. Forget about the actual purpose of what you're trying to do. So yeah, don't focus on the money. 


Stretch: I think I see that with a lot of coaches, even through our careers, you probably the same, the coaches that you see that focus on money just don't really have the passion or the purpose. 


And often they're the guys charging the least for their services and they're just trying to do more work, but it just doesn't relate. I think if we focus on, you know, what we're good at and focus on the client results, money is a side effect. So I couldn't agree more that it's, you've got to find what you love, what you're passionate [00:46:00] about. 


Really stick to it and just do a great job at it. And the money will come. It'll take care of itself. So it's great to hear that advice. 


Jack: These days, like you're just bombarded with people on Instagram or social media that look like they're doing better than I think. And it's, for me, it's always been a monetary thing. 


There'll be a coach that this is how I made a million dollars. And you're like, oh fuck. It doesn't actually matter at all. Like if you provide a good service and then figure out how to do it all, eventually you might make million dollars. But if you just focus on a million dollars, you're gonna feel like shit. Or you've not, you don't get there at all, you know? 


Stretch: The power of marketing mate, it can be a terrible thing on it. 


My last question for you mate, is if you could have dinner with anyone, either alive or dead, who would that be and why? 


Jack: I think I mentioned this last time we spoke and his name's Alex Hormozi. He is like entrepreneur from the states. And he's a bit of a legend he's just recently written a book and he [00:47:00] does free courses and stuff. 


And People don't follow him. Definitely follow him. He's great. He's got a really interesting outlook on on just life and meaning and business and things like that. And I think he would be very interesting to have a conversation with, and I reckon you'd do much talking. I think he would just talk the whole time. 


Stretch: You just be taking notes. 


Jack: You just be there just like constant downloads of gold. . 


Stretch: That's some solid answers to those questions and definitely stuff. I'll be looking up. Once we get off this call, if people want to get in touch with you, Jack, and what they want to find out more about what you do, where's the best place for them to reach out. 


Jack: Currently Instagram or go onto my website, which is stateofmotion.co. But my Instagram handles is jackturner.som, which is state of motion. And that's probably where I'm the most yeah, where I'm then I'd say, yeah. 


Stretch: Wicked jacket. Really appreciate your time and your insights into what you've done in terms of growing your career and I know a lot of coaches who get a lot out of that before we finish up, is there [00:48:00] anything else you'd like to add? 


Jack: Not really, mate. We've covered heaps. Yeah. I really appreciate your time mate. It's been a, it's been a pleasure. So thanks for having me on.