Why Men in Midlife Say They Want Change — But Rarely Follow Through
In this episode, StreTch and Caspar discuss the intricacies of goal setting, particularly in the context of men's health and fitness. They explore the common pitfalls of traditional goal setting, the importance of understanding emotional drivers behind goals, and the role of coaching in helping clients navigate their challenges.
The conversation emphasizes the need for realistic, achievable goals and the significance of addressing excuses and resistance that clients often face. Through personal anecdotes and insights, they provide valuable strategies for listeners to enhance their goal-setting approach and achieve lasting change. In this conversation, StreTch and Caspar discuss the importance of gradual progress in achieving goals, emphasising the need for sustainable systems rather than quick fixes.
They explore the significance of having a clear vision in life coaching, which serves as a guiding North Star for decision-making. The discussion also highlights key takeaways on goal setting, including the importance of understanding the emotional drivers behind goals and the necessity of taking small, manageable steps towards improvement.
Finally, they introduce their programs, the Top Gun Academy and Reclaim Your Edge, designed to help individuals create personalised systems for lasting change.
StreTch Rayner (00:01)
Mavericks, welcome back to another cracking episode of the podcast. And I'm excited because in 2025, we're to take a slightly different twist with a few episodes. Casper and myself are going to jump on and talk about a lot of different topics related to men's health, related to life goals, related to health goals, fitness goals, so many different things. So the podcast will to and fro between conversations with Casper and I.
also having guests on, maybe even having some clients on in the future, which will be exciting to do, but we'll see how this all goes. Yeah, so today we're gonna talk a little bit about goal setting because January's fast approaching and it's the crazy time of the year where everyone wants to jump on board and set big elaborate goals. And we're gonna talk about why that fails and a better way to go about it. But before we dive into that, Casper, nice to see you, mate. How you doing?
Caspar (00:58)
Thank you for having me, Stretch. I'm doing very well. It's 7.30 here in the UK and still dark this time of year as we approach the shortest day on the 21st, but I'm up bright and early as usual and excited to be here having this conversation with you, Stretch.
StreTch Rayner (01:16)
Yeah, that's it, mate. Well, it's about 6pm over here and it's totally opposite. It's bright, it's sunny. I'm looking out the window at the beach. Just went down for a swim. So it's been a good day. Opposite sides of the world, but it's pretty cool that we can connect and do this sort of stuff. So thanks for jumping on board, Let's dive in. Let's really nut this out. So, you we're to be talking about goal setting. And I suppose a lot of men, you know, not just in midlife want to make big changes, but they rarely follow through.
What's been your experience, mate, as a health and fitness coach working in the industry for a long time and now as a life coach, what do you typically see around goal setting?
Caspar (01:56)
Well, typically, I mean, this time of year, especially, you know, in the UK, as we run up towards Christmas, you know, the foot is taken off the accelerator and there's a lot of indulgence, we could say over the course of December and you know, the usual cycle continues into, you know, your middle mess between Christmas and New Year when people start to think about like,
Okay, what might 2025 or what might the next year look like for me? What do I want to achieve? How do I want to feel? How do I want to experience my day to day? What do I want to create? And a big part of that for most people is orientated around their health. And you and I have both seen it stretch. I worked in the physical health and wellness industry as a personal trainer and gym owner for about 10 years before moving into life coaching.
And it was the same pattern, you know, every year, a lot of it is Simon at the beginning of the year, big goals, people were setting out and setting out big challenges for themselves and starting the year with this real like tenacity of like, this time it's going to be different. This time we're going to stick to it. This time there's going to be like this grand change. you know, all of the, all the plans and all the goals that I had that I have written down, they're going to be, they're going to be achieved. And then we just noticed this, this drop off as we.
move through February and into March, that kind of energy that we have at the beginning of the year starts to dissipate and people who might have fallen off this, fallen out of consistency with their goals or with the stepping stones that would lead them to their goals.
you know, maybe one or two days it's kind of failed and they just slip back into what I call like the default mode, the default way of operating, the familiar. And, and then yeah, the cycle continues. How about you stretch? How do you say it?
StreTch Rayner (03:58)
Yeah, it's hit my head.
That's it's a silver light. mean, my experience in health and fitness started in the UK. Personal training, working at Globo gyms, working at PT studios. And yeah, you just see it ramp up January, to be honest, wasn't really a busy month because I think a lot of people are still returning from holidays. Everyone spent their money over Christmas, they're a bit broke. They're waiting for the first paycheck to come in. If everybody hits the gyms just manic. There's not enough room to swing a cat.
And it just goes crazy. And even now with my online clients, like I hate it because February is like, okay, I'm going to have minimal equipment and I've got a program for these guys in a busy gym. And it can be a nightmare for those guys as well. And even in, you know, owning the gym, owning, you know, momentum training and CrossFit Hackney, you know, February was one of the best months for us in terms of earning money. But at the same time, you would start to see a little bit of a drop off. And yeah, it's that same sort of routine, isn't it? Everyone goes through that same cycle. I the big months in the UK were, you know,
February after Christmas everyone getting into the fitness and then you're looking at before you know August summer holidays Everyone getting back into the gym around that some too and it just goes peaks and troughs. Whereas I think Australia is a little bit more Consistent but still I know a lot of guys that hit the ground running hard at the start of the year And then it just drops off as the year goes on they don't manage to sustain their goals. They don't manage to sustain their routines And that's really what I want to dive into because you and I now both working
You you as a life coach, myself as a health coach, we've got a different approach. And it's an approach I wish I knew more about when I was doing PT. And I've got a story I'll share a little bit later in this podcast about how I probably failed as a coach at the time and how I could have done better if I'd known what I know now. But that's all part of growth, isn't it? Yeah, so to our listeners, we're gonna talk about maybe why traditional goal setting fails. We're gonna talk about why having a vision of your future self is important.
The power of systems, we're gonna dive into that a little bit and creating lasting change. But I really hope you guys stick around in terms of listeners, because at the end of this podcast, we're gonna talk about something you can do today, a small action that potentially can snowball and help you stay on track with the momentum you wanna build this year and with the goals that you do set yourself. So with that said, mate, let's sort of dive into goal setting.
I think a lot of guys set some big, ambitious, crazy goals. What's some of the biggest goals you think you've heard from your clients that have made you go, hmm.
Caspar (06:33)
Yeah, I mean, one that always sticks out and something which, especially as a, as a, when I was in my gym business and personal training into my gym business and, seeing individuals come through the door with this big goal of running a marathon in this year. And which I think is a great thing to do. It's, it's not that I oppose training for marathons, but it is a, is a big effort and to go from kind of
Yeah, a general level of fitness to completing a marathon, injury free, without having quite serious repercussions is a big challenge. know, first up, the question is, when was the last time you did a four hour walk without sitting down? And, you know, there'll be some thinking there and, yeah, I think those are the big ones. I guess like big running events.
And, know, usually would result in some type of injury or if it was completed, the training volume was too much too soon. And then off the back of that, there would be a burnout of some sort. And, which would take a long time to recover from and, and how both, know both you and I look at fitness even, you know, in the early days of that journey was the, okay, it's not about like how fit you are next month, next year. It's like,
what does fitness look like for you in 10 years time? You know, cause that's what we're training for is longevity, it's quality of life, it's vitality and energy. So these kind of short term kind of milestone gains, it's like, what's the actual cost of that in the longterm? So those were goals that I would, you know, obviously I'm not gonna step in as a coach and go like, that's a shit goal, but I-
StreTch Rayner (08:18)
Yeah.
Caspar (08:26)
but I would challenge them as to why they've set that goal in the first place and actually get under the hood a little bit on that. It's like, what's the reason behind this particular goal? Let's go deep on that. How about you, mate?
StreTch Rayner (08:37)
Yeah.
Yeah, coming from a marathon and triathlon background, know, good five years in the sport. Yeah, I've been there, done that and my reasons behind that, like at the time.
probably was avoidance, like probably me avoiding the unhappiness I was having in my own life and training and doing endurance sports was my escape. The endorphins of running and swimming and cycling and the control that it gave me, like it was a part of my life I could control. So I immersed myself in that to avoid probably the part of my life I couldn't control. And it just let me, you know, avoid that.
in that sense. Was it good for my health? No, I don't think it was. Would I go back and do it again? Hell no. Knowing what I know now. But at the time, you know, I thought it was a great thing for me. And I got swept up in that. I've also worked with a lot of clients who've competed in Ironmans and marathons and triathlons. And yeah, it is asking, like, do you know what this is doing to your body? Is this really what you want to work on? Yeah, it's a great goal to have. Okay, go ahead and do it. Let's work on that. I once had a client in his
Late 40s came to me, wanted to run a marathon. We did it. You know, he had plenty of time to train for it. He ran it, loved it. And then a couple of years later, he came back to me, telling me he wanted to run 12 marathons in 12 months. And I'm like, why? Like what's the driving force behind that? And what are going to be the impacts of that? And to be honest, as a coach, don't want to step in and coach you on that one because I don't see the positive coming out of that. I just see the negative coming out of that.
you're going to get injured, you're going to get burnt out. It's going to have health complications in the long run. So I don't see the positive out of that. So I think sometimes, yeah, we can, as coaches, we can probably just jump in and go, Hey, this guy's going to pay me lots of money. And I'm just going to help him with this goal and tell him he can do it. But these days I'm not so keen to do that. I'm just going to put it back on them and say, well, if you want to do it, go ahead. I'm not going to stop you. But you know, I think you've got to really start to question really why is that important?
So yeah, I agree with you, mate, looking into those goals and really figuring out what's behind that and maybe what they're trying to avoid. If that's the goal, is there something else in your life that you're running from? Is the marathon the solution? Maybe not.
Caspar (10:55)
Yeah,
or trying to achieve through the process of goal setting. You you bought in with that share of your stretch and thank you for that. Around that sense of control or that sense of escape in some way and committing to a training routine where you do...
take on that sensation of control and potentially escapism from the things that you know, don't know the direction you don't want to look in. But yeah, I mean, it's an interesting one goal setting, but I know that in this conversation, we're going to, you know, really kind of dial down on the why and actually get to the essence of goal creation. And that's a big part of actually, you know, achieving what we set out for ourselves.
StreTch Rayner (11:51)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. My there's an exercise I want to put here as we get through this presentation. And it's one that the listeners can probably do around their goals. And I think it'll be worthwhile. But I got another another bit of a story to share. And it's about I suppose, the time of owning the gym and the time of you know, working as a coach very much face to face. I still work as a coach now it's all online. But face to face with clients like
Caspar (11:51)
is tapping into the white.
StreTch Rayner (12:16)
You know, the gym was later in my PT career, like I four and a half years at the gym. But before that, there was a good four and a half years of PT. And during that whole time, you know, the clients always coming and going, you know, you're always getting new clients, you're turning over clients, some clients will stick with you. I've had some clients, you know, 10 years, still trying with me. And it's awesome. But there'll be clients that would come and you know, they would do everything right. And you know, they would get great results, they would, they would set goals and they would get their results.
there would be other clients that had exactly the same goals and they would come and they would fail. And I could be using the same program with these guys, because let's say it's weight loss. Some guys are smashing it. And then I'm using the same program with these other clients and they're not seeing any results. I'm talking to them about the same nutrition. I'm giving them the same nutrition advice. I'm helping them exactly the same way, the same information. Yet some clients, probably 50 % of my clients would go on and be really successful and the other 50 % would fail.
And in my mind, I would tell myself that these guys are not doing the work outside of the gym. It's their fault. It's your fault. You're not doing the work outside of the gym. It's not my fault. I know this system works. I see clients getting results all the time. And it wasn't until after I did my health coaching course that the penny dropped. It wasn't their fault. It was my fault. I was failing them as a coach because the system that I was applying, the programming that I was applying, the education that I was giving wasn't meeting the client where they were at.
I wasn't coming back to understand their lifestyle, their career, their stress, everything that was happening in their lifestyle and how I could best guide them and support them so that they could find a system or a process or a way forward that suited their lifestyle. And maybe their goals were too elaborate for what they could achieve right now in their lifestyle, but we could have honed that back in to make it a smaller goal and given them the motivation and support to be able to achieve that goal.
And it really was a big mind fuck for me because I was like, wow, you here I am helping clients set goals. Here I am telling them that can be achieved because I know clients who have achieved that goal, but I'm not asking enough questions to figure out, can this client achieve that goal? And if not, what can we do to get them a step closer to that? So that was a big lesson that I've learned, you know, probably only in the last few years. And it's something I wish I'd known a lot earlier.
Are you much the same, mate? Were you in the gym time, were you pretty much down that line and did life coaching teach you something different or what's been the transition on your thinking around goal setting and helping your clients achieve goals?
Caspar (14:52)
I'm so glad that you brought that in stretch because it was it was the problem that I just couldn't figure out I would see our membership group within the gym a very varied bunch of individuals were all like highly committed to the program to their health you know to the goals had great community around them great coaches around them and I just couldn't work it out I'm like
Everybody's in the group, especially outside of personal training, everybody's on the same program. Everybody understands the importance of the nutrition outside of the gym, the sleeping outside of the gym, know, all of the levers that support, you know, quality of your health and wellbeing and your ability to achieve the goals.
that you set for yourself. Again, some people really excel and then the others just, you know, they weren't getting fit, they weren't getting strong. We knew this because we were running testing. You know, we were doing 10 minute air bike tests or, you know, three rep max in deadlift, three rep max in your back squat, max pull up tests, you know, we'll do like certain fitness tests that really show us, are you actually getting fitter and stronger? And we can measure that over time. And
Again, some are excelling and some are just not. They're not going anywhere. And it wasn't really until I started going down the life coaching path. I did a life coaching module with OPEX, OPEX Fitness on their CCP, which is their coaches certificate program, which really just kind of opened my mind. It also kind of opened Pandora's box a little bit because once I looked in this direction, I couldn't unsee it.
And they're starting to having conversations at the front desk with various members coming through and getting to understand them and their challenges outside of the gym. And one thing that kept coming up was the amount of stress that people were experiencing, which was robbing them of their peace, disrupting their sleep. And I'm like, hmm, okay, so.
It's not so much about the training program. It's not so much about the nutrition, but it's actually about what this individual has on their plate day to day. And if I can help with this and help them navigate the stresses that they're experiencing in their lives, then we're going to get better results in the gym and better results in their quality of life. So that was a big one for me. And
And obviously I got deeper and deeper and deeper into that. And then was like, well, look, you know, the power here in life coaching is just, it has the capacity to really shift how people experience their lives at a very, very deep level. You know, across your health, you know, your career, your relationships with yourself and other, and you know, how you...
StreTch Rayner (17:58)
Yeah.
Caspar (18:09)
how you navigate your world and how you experience your life. And yeah, that was my journey into it. But it did start with that. It started with this kind of question. I'm like, what is going on here? Why are some people able to really crush their goals and others just stay stuck? What's that about?
StreTch Rayner (18:23)
Hahaha
Yeah, 100 % might it's one of those things, isn't it? It's, and it's just the advice giving in our industry. It's all about advice giving. You know, we hear about 12 week boot camps or 30 day nutrition challenges, or, know, these extreme workout programs or extreme calorie counting and making deficits and all these sort of things. And they're all systems that can potentially work for some people, but they don't work for everybody.
And sometimes when you apply a system to someone that isn't going to be able to stick to that system, they've got no hope of that being successful. And it's, it's not the client's issue. The system is the wrong system. And we've got to be cautious about that because our industry is just flooded with all these people giving advice and arguing that their system is the best and this is the best way to achieve X goal. But for who, who is that for?
And will that system work for me? And if it doesn't, then I'm only going to waste my time going into that system. And not to say that like, you know, all nutrition plans suck or all systems suck. There's a lot of great systems out there. A lot of great programs. And you know, owning a gym just like you did, mate, the environment and the community was one thing that would help some of those people achieve their results because they're showing up to the gym to be in the community. They're showing up by other people.
There's the support system that comes from the community and all that sort of stuff. And that really works for some people. For others, it doesn't. And I think, you know, as an individual, you need to figure out your own path forward. And that's one of the beautiful things about health coaching and life coaching is we're there to guide you on your journey. But in the end of the day, the responsibility is yours, or the responsibility is the clients and they've got to be willing to step into the arena. They've got to be willing to take control of their health or of their life and to do the actions.
and then often we come back to the excuses and that's the next thing I want to bring up because you enlightened me a lot with this. and you know, the common excuses is I don't have time or I'm too busy. I have too many responsibilities or I'll get to that next week or I'll get to that next month. I know that's something that we both have to deal with Cas, but when, when those sorts of things come up, what's the first thing that pops into your mind when a client says that to you?
Be honest.
Caspar (20:44)
I'm going to be honest here.
It often comes up when things get challenging or I'm asking a client to look in a direction that is uncomfortable. And you know, they may have a lot going on, but this, this thing that, that I've asked them to do isn't easy and it requires them to really look deeply at themselves and
that can create quite a lot of resistance. And as soon as there's a little bit of resistance, it's like, okay, that's not a priority. I'm off to like do something else. and yeah, so when somebody says to me, like, I don't have enough time, it's, it's either, it's either one of two things. It's either that's challenging and I don't want to go there or it's just not a priority, but it's more likely to be the challenge because I wouldn't have a client in my space who's
turning up and paying a considerable amount of money to work with me one-on-one and say it's not a priority. So usually it's some type of resistance, but that's all great feedback for me because I can then inquire into that. Okay, what else was going on in your week that was more important than figuring out?
you know, the outcome of this exercise that I've set and that actually gives us quite a lot to work with. And we can really go and look at, look at that resistance and see where else is it showing up in your life? When things get hard or when things get challenging, like how are you, how are you choosing to be and what are you doing otherwise? And really coming back to the like, you know, this great saying, is
the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. So it's an interesting one and I really like that catch. Like when there's an excuse, wanna not just take the excuse, I wanna really understand like what that's about and go deep on it. And it will be uncomfortable for the person sitting opposite.
StreTch Rayner (22:59)
Yeah, I like the idea of, you know, I think you said to me once when when we were talking about, you know, these common excuses that men make, and I think your reply was, it's bullshit. And I think that's a great way to put it. Because I like what you said there. It's like, let's say we're stepping into something that's uncomfortable, we're stepping into them, you know, talking about, let's say,
let's say it's medical checkups, they know they've got high cholesterol or something like that. And we're talking about, okay, you need to go get your blood work done. We want to look at your functional range of blood work. And they're like, no, I'll get to that later. I don't really want to look at that. There's this fear there. Or another way to look at is there's something that might be out of their control that they can't control. So we avoid that fear, or we avoid that discomfort. And we make an excuse that I'm too busy, or I've got too many responsibilities.
But deep down, it's the fear or that loss of control that their guys are moving away from. And in reality, that's probably the area where they need to move towards. And it's uncomfortable and it's difficult. I was, it's interesting. I was talking to a client about procrastination. Like I'm always procrastinating. I should do that. I'll get to it later. I might do that. And it's like, well, procrastination is avoidance. It's avoidance of the discomfort. It's the avoidance of the hard conversations.
Caspar (23:59)
Yes.
StreTch Rayner (24:19)
It's the avoidance of failure or that fear. You're avoiding it because it's easier. And I know because what I said to you before about the marathons and triathlons for four and a half years, that was avoidance. That was me not facing my real life and me filling my space with training and competing in triathlons because I didn't want to think about my relationships. I didn't want to think about my career. I didn't want to think about, you know, the things that my mates were doing or what was happening around me. I just wanted to be able to separate myself from that.
and immersed myself in something else. And I was avoiding those conversations or I was avoiding that discomfort, but replacing it with something that probably wasn't serving me. And it was running, it was fear. I was running away from the challenge or the obstacle there. So I think that when we hear that, we hear that I don't have time or I'm too busy. It's really looking deep into that and questioning that. Well, why do you feel that you're so busy that you can't do this, but yet you can go and do this?
Hang on a minute. What's going on there?
Caspar (25:18)
Yeah, yeah,
there's so much in that. there's one exercise that I have, which is actually part of our Top Gun course, which is, it is challenging for people. It really means meeting themselves, you know, honestly meeting themselves. And that can be challenging and it uncovers a lot of maybe buried truth. And once that truth comes up and wants to be
become aware of it, that might mean having to make some pretty big shifts in your life. And that can be uncomfortable as well because we as we like
We like regularity, you know, we like to, we find control through the norm, through rhythm and routine. And often change requires us to move outside of that. And that's where unknown can come up. We don't like unknown, we want predictability. So this is also a challenge in actually achieving the goals we set out.
StreTch Rayner (26:24)
Hmm.
Caspar (26:32)
out for ourselves or making big life shifts is actually requires us to step fearlessly into the unknown and trust that the process that you have mapped out for yourself is heart-led and is moving you in a direction that has a lot of meaning.
StreTch Rayner (26:51)
Hmm. Yeah. I like what you said there. I think that's, it's valuable and being able to sit with that and have space to question that is something like a lot of guys don't do. And to circle back to goals, cause obviously that's our topic. think, you know, this sort of comes in where people set a goal and they have that huge level of motivation, especially in January to start working towards that goal. And it might be one week, two weeks, maybe they'll even get four weeks where that motivation and drive will stay high.
But then those excuses will sort of start to come in and that's when it starts to break apart. And it could be a fact that they're not seeing the result they want in that short period of time. So it's like this fear of I'm gonna fucking fail. So I'm gonna step off this because I don't wanna fail. It's easier to move back into my old patterns, my old behaviors and just say I'm too busy than it is to keep pushing down this path and not see results. So I'm just gonna fall off the bandwagon.
And then it also circles into like, you know, like I said, at least 12 week programs or 30 day programs or what the mainstream health and fitness industry pushed towards us about like this all or nothing. Like you've got to cut calories and you've got to be in a deficit and you've got to train six times a week and you've got to do high intensity and you've got to do X, Y and Z, whatever the frigging thing is, it's like more is better. And that whole sort of approach that's on there, which just leads to burnout, injury or frustration.
And that circles back again to those excuses of I can't do this. So I'm going to pull the pin again. And it's just that infinite loop that we see so many people go on in the gym business or even in just health or probably even in life coaching. And I think it comes back to that why, like what are you doing and why are you doing it? And is it something that's going to serve you for the long run or is it short term quick fix that you're just going to
end up breaking yourself with, or it's not going to be something that you sort of implement. Would you agree, mate? Or have you got anything to add on that?
Caspar (28:50)
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. mean,
firstly, I think it'd be really interesting to our listeners is under, you you've spoken about that why. Can you give us an example of that stretch?
StreTch Rayner (29:05)
that's a good question, mate. That's a good question. I suppose I touched on this before and I was like, there's this exercise we can do in coaching and it's called the five whys. And it's like, especially around goal setting, because someone will come with a goal. And the goal might be, I want to lose weight. Okay, sounds like a good enough goal. But what's the why behind that goal? So you know how little kids always ask why, but why dad?
But why, but why? And you keep giving them an answer and every time it's but why, but why? Because keeps coming back up. So it's like, okay, if you if you've got the goal of I want to lose weight, let's say it's 20 kilos, my first response as a coach would be why. So you got to sit there and think about that. Why do you want to lose 20 kilos? And it might come back down to confidence. Well, if I lost 20 kilos, I'd feel more confident. Awesome. Why? Why is that important to you? Why is confidence important to you? Because I'm afraid that
Maybe my partner's losing interest in me because I'm overweight. Okay, that's a good reason. You need that confidence because it's important to you. It's important to your relationship with your partner. That's awesome. But why is that important to you? And like, well, I'm afraid maybe my partner might lose interest or that, you know, our sex life might drop off or whatever it is that that why is behind there. Things are slowing down. We're not having our normal relationship. I'm afraid that in the future, you know, things might go the way I don't want them to go.
this is starting to dig a lot deeper than I wanna lose weight. This is really nodding down to what's important. And it's just by asking why. And the five why's is five times. So then it's like, well, why is that something that you're worried about? Or why is that important to you? And it could be that, well, I'm scared if I don't lose weight, I can't be the partner that I wanna be. And I can't be the husband or father that I wanna be.
What I like about that is it goes deeper than the physical because a physical goal is great. I want to lose weight. I want to look better. Whatever. That's the physical goal. But the emotional goal, that's so much more powerful. If you can tap into that and you can find out what the client's emotional goal is, they're going to be far more likely to stick to that goal or the training program or the diet or getting to bed earlier or managing their sleep.
or whatever it is that they need to do to be able to move closer to the man or the person they want to become. Because that emotional driver is so much more powerful. And that's where like the five whys. So if you've got a goal, if you're a listener and you've got a goal, ask yourself why five times and just dig deeper into the importance of that goal or why that goal matters to you.
Caspar (31:52)
Yeah, thank you for showing that stretch. It's so powerful. And just to echo that, connecting to that emotional driver behind a goal is just, is where you want to be. I mean, that's, you know, that's such a great start point for success. But I also think it's interesting to talk about, like, you know, you've mentioned the 12 week programs, which are very rigid and, and, and the cookie cutter and they
You know, may work for some people, but not others. And, you know, we have a very different approach to, to goal actualization. And one thing that really stands out for me, and I know this is the same for you is, is meeting clients at where they're at currently, assessing where they are and asking them just, you know, in one particular area, it might be, you know, we're having a conversation today.
really rounds like holistic wellbeing, but I'm just going to pull out one point. It could be around like health. How do you make one positive step forward in your health that you can be consistent with over a duration of time? And then you may ask the same question is like, how do you move yourself from a level like four in your relationship with your partner to a level five?
StreTch Rayner (33:18)
Hmm.
Caspar (33:18)
Like what is required there? Is it sustainable? Is it connected to your emotional driver? And can you be consistent with this step over time?
StreTch Rayner (33:32)
Yeah, yeah. What I like, what I like about what you just said there, and it was really like, you got to tune in to listen to this, but it was going from a four to a five. Because I think one of the things too, when we talk about goals, we talked about earlier, the ambitious goal, it's going from a four to a 10. And that's what we set ourselves this unrealistic, unattainable, unachievable for most people goals. And we look at the end destination, because that's what a goal is. A goal is a destination. I'm at point A, and I want to get to
point D. Okay, but if I don't go through point B, C and E, then how do I get to D? But if you've got that expectation of getting to a 10 out of 10, but you haven't yet got to a five out of 10, then why don't you just go for a five out of 10? Like, like I like what you said there. It's just like, let's look at the small thing, the small achievable, attainable thing. Turn the dial up as you say, from the four to the five is taking my relationship to a higher level. That's a success. That's worth celebrating.
and then take it from a five to a six if that's what you want to do. But yeah, I think the gradual small achievable attainable things are a great way to sort of help us break down those big goals. And we're not going for the quick fix. Like we said, we're going for long term results. And if you want your relationship to be at a 10 out of 10, that can happen. But let's just take it one step at a time. And I think it's a good thing to do. Quotes, four wrong quotes, know, James Claire, one of one of his
you know, most well-known quotes and it's coming up on the internet all the time right now. And it's, don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. And it's about building that system that supports that. And that system has got to be tailored to the individual. And like you said, meeting the client where they're at, or where is the client? What's the system we can do to get them from a four to five? Because that's a different system to the system that's going to get them from a five to a six and maybe a six to a seven.
and the system has to change depending on the client's lifestyle and just being able to understand that.
Caspar (35:31)
Hmm.
Yeah, I'd love to give our listeners an example of a system. And I'm going to share a very powerful move that I made. Gosh, it must have been about six, maybe even seven years ago now. And we were approaching autumn here in the UK. I was running my gym business with my business partners. And you know what it's like stretch?
It's stressful. There's a lot of plates to spin, a lot of balls in the air, a lot of problems to solve on the fly. And I used to wake up in the morning and hit my alarm, or my alarm would sound on my phone, and I would hit my alarm, turn it off. Now I have my phone in my hand. And I would...
gravitate towards my inbox and go and start checking through my emails. And then I would go from my email to my WhatsApp. And then on Sundays I might even go from my WhatsApp to my social media. So I'm, I'm letting the world in first thing in the morning. And sometimes I would read something or see something that upset me or triggered me. And my day would then start quite heightened, know, quite a lot, quite forward. And my mind would be thrown into like what
needs to be accomplished today, what problems need to be overcome, what do I need to do? And I get up and I'd start kind of rushing my morning and start my day in this very kind of heightened state. And it was really, really impacting the levels of stress that I was experiencing, unknowingly, because that was just like my default mode. That was my default way of being. That's the only thing that I'm...
StreTch Rayner (37:27)
No.
Caspar (37:32)
That's how I operated and I couldn't really say it for what it was. So we were getting into autumn and I thought to myself, I've been reading a lot about our circadian rhythms and how important that is and how important our sleep is. And so how can I turn the dial here? How can I improve my sleeping environment? So I decided, I was like, I'm gonna go and buy an illuminating alarm clock.
and I set it up and I thought to myself, put my alarm on, set the time. I thought to myself, I don't need this and my phone. So I thought, well, I'll just switch my phone off, 8 p.m. just turn my phone off. I was like, that's nice. No phone for an hour and a half before I go to sleep and red in bed and the light slowly kind of goes down and might help me kind of drift off to sleep. And then I woke up the next morning to this light.
just kind of slowly getting lighter and this alarm sound. And I spent some time just kind of waking up and I got out of bed and my morning was just completely different. know, I sat down on the sofa and watched the light come through the window and I checked in with myself and how I was feeling, what was present, what was on my mind. Like, is my body tense? How's my breathing? And then went to make myself some breakfast.
Sad times, I could write a couple of words in my journal and I thought to myself, wow, this feels different. And my day just felt so much more larger and fuller and I had so much more presence and I thought, God, this feels different. And that was just on one day, right? And then I thought to myself, okay,
StreTch Rayner (39:12)
Yeah.
Caspar (39:30)
How is this going to be if I start every day like this, every day kind of coming home to myself, every day connecting to myself, every day giving myself that space to breathe before switching my phone on and allowing the world in? So I set my stage for the day, set my intention for the day, then we go about tackling whatever problem that needed to be tackled, but in a much more centered state. And honestly,
StreTch Rayner (39:44)
Mm.
Caspar (39:59)
that like one small change, that one shift of my system was a complete game changer. So I, myself as somebody who's very into health and wellbeing and self-development, I'm always looking for these small, small dials, these small twists. How do I upgrade my system? How do I move from a like a six to a seven or even just like a six to a 6.5 and how do I get...
StreTch Rayner (40:04)
Yeah.
Caspar (40:27)
consistency with that until it becomes so habitual. That's just how I am. That's, that's how I operate. And that's how I've, you know, succeeded with goal actualization is just zooming out and, and, understanding what's the destination that I'm going to, and then how I reverse engineer that process with the systems that I've set up.
StreTch Rayner (40:52)
Yeah, it's awesome, mate. There's so much in that, but I want to point out the first thing I picked up that you said was, what do I need to do today? And it's like that, that, okay, you've checked everything and you're just feeling fucking overwhelmed because there's so much of the outer coming in. It's what do I need to do today? What was the what do I want to do today? Like waking up with what do I want to do today? But then it goes from there to like, okay, the simple thing you did was you got rid of your fucking phone.
because that's the big distraction. And when the phone was gone, it's well, then it's the question of, what do I replace it with? And it's like, okay, you've got this alarm clock, but then that alarm clock has turned into waking up a lot more relaxed, a lot more present into journaling, into breathing, into checking in. Like it's nearly built the system itself from one action of getting rid of the phone. And so many people are glued to their bloody phones and I've been guilty of it before, but my phone doesn't go into the bedroom now. Like I turned it off at night and it stays out of the room.
Cause I know what it's in there when the alarm goes off in the morning, the first thing I'm going to do is pick up my phone. If it's in my hand, I'm probably like you, I'm going to check things. And it's like not the time of day where I want to be checking things, but that one small change, it's so minute and so small, most guys wouldn't even think about it. Or when they think about it, like, what's that going to do? Like what's that's nothing. How does that help me improve my health and fitness? Well, it does a lot. Like if you replace it with, you know, just what Casper said in terms of his system that he built to replace that and how he approaches his day and how that sets him up.
improving sleep, so many benefits come from that. And it's just one such tiny, small action, which is so powerful. So awesome work and share on that story cast. Cause I think it just sort of shows how sometimes the smallest step can create the biggest win or it can create the big transformation. Everyone's going for these 12 week crazy workout routines and cutting calories and doing all this shit that they probably can't sustain. And you've just created so much space in your life by turning your phone off at 8pm. Yeah, it's awesome, mate. It's awesome.
Caspar (42:49)
Yeah.
StreTch Rayner (42:50)
Also, at the end of that, you talked about like, this idea of like how you want your life to look. And it's something that we said we talked about tonight, but we've just sort of glossed over a little bit. I want to touch on vision. And I think that's important. So can you talk to us a little bit about maybe vision and what you're doing around vision in life coaching, because I use vision and health coaching too. But why do you feel vision is important? And can you give an example of like, what do we mean when we talk about vision?
Caspar (43:18)
Yeah, vision creation is a huge part of the work that I do one-on-one with my clients, with my one-on-one clients. But then I also bring that into our course that we're running, the Top Gun Academy. And it's a module within that program that I have in Top Gun. And how I look at it is it's incredibly important to know our destination. It helps us with...
everyday decision making. And it also gives us lot of clarity, which takes away procrastination. The division creation process is beautiful. It's relatively simple. And I ask three questions. What do want to create or what I want to achieve? Who do I want to become? And how do I want to experience my day to day life? And I give this exercise and ask
my clients or my group to really tune in to into this heart space and into the gut and remove any any doubts or remove any cants, shoulds, know, any of this negative language and just really dream big. And it's a beautiful process and one that can take some time and it takes it takes some digging to
to unfold, but it really reveals a lot of truth, which as I said earlier in this conversation can be challenging. You know, let's say for example, an individual's on a career path that they know deep down isn't fulfilling them, isn't meeting their needs or isn't giving them meaning in their life anymore. Their values may have changed and they know it.
But uncovering that truth can be scary, right? Because it really shows us actually like, my heart's desire isn't this, it's something else. And then like that then creates a lot of discomfort and confusion and challenge as to how to actually step into this new path. So the vision process is a big one, but it essentially like creates the North Star.
that orientates all our decision making around. know, when we're confronted with options, we go, well, is option A going to move me closer towards my goal or further away from it? But we need to know what the outcome is and it needs to be heart-centered rather than like, what does my...
parent expect me to do what most of my partner expects me to do. Who do I need to be for other people rather than like who do I need to be for myself to bring high levels of meaning into my life, meaning and purpose. so, so yeah, having the, having the vision is, incredibly important because it also connects that emotional aspects of what we're talking about around the why behind our goals. So once we can connect to that, we're like, this is what I fucking want Like,
StreTch Rayner (46:14)
Mm.
Yeah.
Caspar (46:39)
with all of my heart and
like that's the North Star, then we can start to reverse engineer that and go, okay, well, where am I in comparison to this vision that I have? Okay, cool, this is where I am, through doing like a life order or life assessment or health assessment, for example, and then asking ourselves like, how do I move just one step closer towards this? What do I need to do and who do I need to be? And that's the power of the vision.
StreTch Rayner (46:58)
Hmm.
Yep. Yep.
Yeah, I agree, mate. I think vision is so powerful and it's often overlooked. think especially for a lot of guys, we might have a little bit of a vision about the future. There was a time in my life where I was changing careers from corporate to personal training. And then in personal training, I was like, well, one day I'm going to own a gym. That was a vision. But I didn't really sit down and think why that was important to me. Like, why do I want to own a gym? And like, how am going to get there? And who does that make me become as a gym owner? Like, what am I striving for to tick that box?
didn't really ask the questions, went down that journey and became a gym owner. loved every minute of it, but still it would have been nice to think about it in a bit more depth and really get clarity, get really clear on it. And even though I wanted to be the gym owner, did I go down the most efficient path and the right path in that journey of becoming a gym owner? I think it could have done better there. and I think what you sort of said there about once you've got that clear vision of who you want to become or what you want to create.
then it's like, well, now we can start to put together the map of how to get there. And that map comes down to every single decision you make. So it's like in my day-to-day life, if I want to become that man who's going to be the gym owner, and I'm at this point in this decision where someone's offering me to take on more clients and, you know, invest money into X, Y, and Z, or, you know, to change parts of the world that I'm living in, is that going to move me close to that goal or is it going to move me further away from
Like that helps me make that day to day decision because I know who I want to become. I know more why behind who I want to become. So every decision I make has to be based around that. and just gives us so much more clarity because I think we can get overwhelmed and we can get confused. We see this great thing, this new diet, this new f****g training routine, this f****g new investment opportunity as a guy, whatever it is. And if we don't have clarity or we don't have a vision about where we want to go in our life for that direction.
then we could invest in this or we could buy into this. And it's just a waste of time, energy and effort and resources because it's not aligned with who we want to become. So that clarity in that vision work, like it's just so powerful. And it's one of those things I think I wish I'd known about it sooner or I wish I'd actually sat down and done that work sooner to figure out, you know, what was in, what was important to me and why it was important to me. Cause it would have made things a lot smoother in my life. Yeah.
Caspar (49:10)
Hmm.
Mm. Mm.
Yeah.
It
takes us from a reactive state to a responsive state, which I think is very important. It means that we're not just like knee-jerk, that looks nice, that shiny thing, that might work. It takes all of that out and it moves us into a place of much more, yeah, we have a lot more clarity and a lot more centeredness and a lot more direction and a lot more...
StreTch Rayner (49:36)
Yes. Yeah.
Caspar (49:58)
kind of trust in ourselves that that's the right direction to take, which then removes the procrastination. I mean, the real like step there is the vision creation process is it does require you to like slow down and zoom out, which is like, let's be honest, like people just don't do that that often. They just don't have, you know, the space for it. Again, that's where, you know, the excuse comes in. If I give this exercise to somebody and there's a, there's a bit of resistance or I haven't had time to it, or like, I haven't quite got to it. It's like,
Okay, but it is very important and once you have this down, like it's gonna be a game changer, but again, like what can be uncovered within it can be relatively challenging.
StreTch Rayner (50:44)
Yeah, exactly, mate. Dude, we've covered a lot. I think there's a lot in this conversation we've already unpacked and there's so much more to talk about. But let's dig deep and think about it. The topic is goals and we're talking about like a lot of guys set goals, a lot of people set goals in January and probably by March, if they're lucky, they've failed or they've not stuck with it. They've not followed through. So what are some takeaways from what we've talked about? Because we've covered like, okay, goals are a sense of direction. We've talked about
systems, we've talked about overcoming excuses and maybe that discomfort and fear, loss of control, division setting, all that sort of stuff. But what are your big takeaways or what do you want our listeners to take away from this conversation today?
Caspar (51:31)
Hmm, yeah, that's a good question, Stretch. I think the big one is connecting to the why behind your goal and also understanding where you're at in terms of the goal and understanding, okay, well, it's not about taking that huge leap and going from like a four to a 10. It's about going from a four to a five. And that also creates a lot more ease, you know, and...
and takes away that high level expectation that we place on ourselves to actually achieving the goal quickly. And then you can ask yourself that question. It's like, well, if this is my goal, my big picture goal, and this is where I am right now, what is the first step in the direction of this goal? And just taking that first step and just rinsing and repeating that for a number of months until it becomes
totally automatic or ingrained into your way of being and operating. And then from that place, again, like you said, stress, if you want to take it to a 10, it's like, okay, now I'm at a five. Like that's, that's my level. Like if I want to go to a six, what do I do next? And if we can take that approach with like, you know, in every area of our lives, like that builds sustainability and that builds real powerful change over time.
It's the aggregation of marginal gain.
StreTch Rayner (53:01)
Yeah, perfect, mate. I like it. I like what you said. It's about creating the sustainability. And that's where we go wrong so often is what we try to implement is just unsustainable for where we are in our life right now. And it's about finding the small incremental changes that allow us to move forward one step closer, turn the dial one notch, just go a little bit more. And again, that comes back to the systems and finding out the system.
you know, the example we gave earlier was like, okay, I to lose 20 kilos and finding that the why behind it, the emotional why, but then it's like, okay, so how do we lose 20 kilos? Most people go, well, I'm gonna eat clean and I'm gonna train hard. What the fuck does that look like? That's so vague and so unspecific that it's just like, well, you don't even know what you're doing. You're just training hard and trying to eat clean. What does that look like? How does that work? And a system like
getting clarity on the system could be okay, I go to the gym three times a week and do a 60 minute strength training session. That could be the first step in the system. It's like getting that ingrained. Like you said, can I sustain that? And if I can't, that's not failure. That's just showing you right now in your life that that's not sustainable. Fine, make it two sessions a week, make it a 45 minute session instead of a 60 minute session. Find what's sustainable and implement that because consistency
will always win over intensity. And if you can find the routine that's gonna work for you, you're gonna make steps forward. If you get that right, then it might be like, okay, I'm not gonna think about training and adding more training. What about nutrition? What's one thing I can do in nutrition? Eat 40 grams of quality protein for breakfast. There's your goal, not counting calories, weighing macros, fucking meal prep, like all the crazy things that we were told we have to do, unsustainable. Like just start with one simple thing, 40 grams of breakfast each day.
That feels good. feel I can do that. Awesome. If that's what you can do, implement that, get that working. Then if that works, it might be time to look at your sleep like what you did. Take the phone away or set that alarm at 9 PM. goes off when it's okay. I'm going to get to bed now. This is my evening routine. I'm going to get to bed. Does that feel sustainable? Is that something you can implement? Now you started to build a system, training, nutrition, sleep, all these little small dots that start to connect that you can put into this routine.
that will change your life dramatically. And it's something that you're just gonna continue to be able to turn the dial up on. Once one thing becomes habit and routine, try something else and be willing to experiment, be willing to fail, but don't see it as failure. Just see it as right now, that's too much. How can I take that little step back and just celebrate the small win instead of getting frustrated, burnt out, overwhelmed and doing fuck all? I think that's the big part of it, isn't it?
Caspar (55:48)
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that stretch. I love that so much. Thank you for sharing that with us. And just one thing that I hear at the end is like, there's no such thing as failure, it's just feedback.
StreTch Rayner (56:01)
Hmm, yes. Yeah, it's a good way to put it. dude, so good to talk to you about this. Like, I mean, you and I bounce ideas off each other all the time. Like, we're always talking about different coaching things. We're sharing, you know, some of the stuff we're going through, some of the stuff we might be seeing with clients, figuring out the best path forward, the way that we can address this, the way that we can help our clients find the clarity, the simplicity, the easy steps forward.
You know, we've put together a couple of little things that we we want to talk about here. One is like the Top Gun Academy and the other one is Reclaim Your Edge. What would you like to say about our Top Gun Academy here? Let me throw it at you first.
Caspar (56:44)
Try and keep it short. Wow.
The Top Gun Academy, I mean, I just think it's the most amazing out, I think the Top Gun Academy is the most incredible amalgamation of health coaching and life coaching. It really covers like all bases and the program I've personally put together for our guys in the cohort, in the Top Gun cohort is very
well thought out and it really uncovers a lot. It helps us gain clarity, it connects us to the emotional drivers behind the goals, go through the vision creation process, which again, as I said earlier, is a big one and it really creates that north star. And the idea behind the program, the three month program that we have created is that it provides like a very, very, very solid foundation for individuals
go through and then just launch off. It's not just like, here's a three month program, here are some objectives that you need to hit and then you just kind of revert back to the default mode. It's about disrupting that default mode and about giving our guys the tools and support to create their own systems and really tune into their own path and then supporting those guys' walk-in.
StreTch Rayner (58:12)
Yeah, wicked, mate. I like it. I'm gonna add to that and say, yeah, our unique selling point is where do you find a program that offers life coaching, health coaching, and personal training all in one. And they're all very closely linked to each other. And when you start to do this work, and you start to see that, you can see how important your health is for your life and how important your happiness, fulfillment and purpose in life is for your health, and how training can support that.
And there are so many elements that you and I both bring to the table that just interconnect so well. And the feedback we're getting from the guys who've gone through the beta launch, you know, has been so positive about, you know, these life-changing experiences they've been on. The other thing I want to say is it is a system, but it's not a system in a sense that it's not generic. The guys that come on the program are doing very different things. And we're here to guide and support you to build your own system. And that's what it does really, really well.
it asks you those powerful questions. It's going to put you in those uncomfortable positions. And most men are probably not ready for the course, to be honest. And if you're not ready to do the work, then it's probably not for you. But if you are the guy that really wants to make significant transformations in your life and with your health, this is going to be a game changer. And it's getting better with each iteration. So in February next year, 2025, I believe it is, we're going to be doing, we're going to be launching.
you know, next round of the Top Gun Academy. And both Cass and I are very excited about this and it's going to be limited spots. There's only 10 spots available and you're going to have to apply. And that's probably going to be an uncomfortable process in itself. But if that's something that you're ready to step into, if you're ready to step into the arena, if you're ready to do the work, then jump on the website, go and fill out the application form ASAP and don't be left out because it's going to be one of those things that we only run probably every sort of three to four months.
and spots are very limited. So now's your chance to get in and go for it. So that's our main program. That's what Cass and I have been working on. I'm really enjoying and we can't wait to connect with more guys who want to go through that. But if you're not quite ready for that and you want to have a bit of a taste there, we've also got a free course and it's called Reclaim Your Edge that Cass and I put together. What would you like to say about that, Cass? I'll throw you under the bus again.
Caspar (1:00:28)
Yeah, thanks for that stretch. Yeah,
I think it's a really great introduction to the work that we do. And it's very different from what you're likely to find anywhere else. And I know from my contribution to that course, it is really just I've introduced some exercises that helps just kind of like, as I said, disrupt the default mode and shifts your
perspective a little bit on health and well-being and starts to like plant the seeds a little bit as to, like what sustainable changes can I make now that are gonna have a big impact? And yeah, it's got a ton of value. It's a short course. You you could probably move through it in a week. You know, most of the videos that we've created are between kind of five and 10 or 12 minutes long. And there's just a...
a short written course or short written exercises under each lesson. I think there are seven lessons in total. So it's a really easy digestible course, but it packs a lot of heat. It's a good taster of what stretch and I are about.
StreTch Rayner (1:01:41)
Yeah, I say it's the light version in a sense of like, it's challenging. And I would say that a lot of guys will probably jump into that they'll open it up, they'll watch all the videos, they'll read the questions, and they might not do the work. Because there will be those uncomfortable questions. Like you said, it's going to rock the boat, it's going to challenge them a little bit to step outside the norm. And what I want to say is, if you don't answer the questions, if you don't sit down and create space and create time to answer those questions, you're always going to be stuck.
where you are right now, you're always gonna be taking two steps forward and three steps back, or just feel like you're running the hamster wheel, because you're not digging into the emotional connection behind your goals. You're not asking the why, and you're not really being able to make a vision or decide who you wanna become and action that. So the work and the uncomfortableness is the part of the success or part of the solution. So step into that.
Don't just watch the videos and read the questions. Make the time, okay? Because you will be surprised how sometimes answering those questions can create such a big aha moment and such a big shift in your space that can change everything. So I think the course is gonna help you discover what's holding you back. It's gonna allow you to redefine what success looks like for you and it's gonna transform your life and it's free. It's your free taster to get in there and do it. So you can jump on the website.
and you can download that or you can go through that course, sign up to it. And yeah, if you've got any questions, feel free to shoot us a message inside the system there and we'll definitely be able to help you. Cass, is there anything else you wanna add at the end of this episode today?
Caspar (1:03:24)
I think we've covered a lot of ground stretch and often I think it's best not to put too much into this space and potentially just let our listeners percolate on what we've shared. But I would encourage anybody who's here listening to us, wrap up this podcast to head to the website and check out that course. And also if there are any questions that...
StreTch Rayner (1:03:38)
Mm.
Caspar (1:03:53)
that any of you guys have, please feel free to reach out to us and we'd love to hear from you. And it's very excited to speak to other guys who are willing to, again, step into that arena and do the hard work, because that is what is required to step out of our default mode, our standard way of operating against. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. So if you're wanting a different result, it is...
StreTch Rayner (1:04:16)
I got it again. Yeah.
Caspar (1:04:22)
going to require some discomfort and it's going to require like looking in the direction of truth and taking brave steps towards, you know, a new way of being an operator.
StreTch Rayner (1:04:37)
Yeah, nice one, Cass. I like it. Just to finish up on at the start, said, we're going to give you something you could take away today that you can action that can help. And so what I want you to do right now is I want you to write down one small thing that you could do tomorrow or that you could do today. It's going to move you closer to the man you want to become. And don't make it going from a four to a 10. Make it from going from a four to a five. Something that just feels I can do that.
and then repeat it again and again and again. And it could be as simple as scheduling in your workout for the week. It could be as simple as turning your phone off before you go to bed. Find that one little thing that you can do today and then repeat it again and again and again. And make it feel something that's achievable and sustainable that you can do. Cause you're not stuck. You're just following the wrong system. And if you can change your system, you can change your life.
All right, I'm good. You good? Something I prepared earlier, but I think it put the nail in the coffin.
Caspar (1:05:40)
I'm good. I love that stretch. That's, that's, that's, it's so, yeah, it's so powerful. It's so powerful.
It's just, it's so, it's just so true, you know? I love it. Thank you for sharing that with us.
StreTch Rayner (1:05:54)
Awesome, Cass. Thank you.
Caspar (1:05:57)
my
days.
